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Holly: Jane, thank you for your question in response to our discussion. Without knowing what work you are involved with, and your exact working hours, it is difficult to state what breaks you are entitled to, however it is suggested that for a 6 hour working day, you should be entitled to a 20 minute rest break. Please follow this link to Citizen Advice Bureau, http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/e_rest_breaks_at_work.pdf where they will be able to provide you with more information on rest breaks, what you are entitled to, and what you can do about your situation. I hope this is helpful for you.
sujata: child labour is nothing but child exploitation it should be stopped but how this is what we are not aware of we should give our old books, clothes and tell them all the poverty programmes for them...
Jane: If you work weekends 9am to 3pm officially but have to be in work before this time and often leaving late are you entitled to a break?
Yvonne: There is no legal limit to how long you should work at a VDU, but under health and safety regulations you have the right to breaks from work using a VDU. These don't have to be rest breaks, just different types of work. Guidance from the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) suggests it's better to take shorter breaks more often at your workstation than longer breaks and less often, eg a 5-10 minute break after 50-60 minutes continuous screen and/or keyboard work is likely to be better than a 15 minute break every two hours. But if your job means spending long periods at a VDU, eg data input, then longer breaks from your workstation should be introduced.
Juan Pocai: Very nice post. I just stumbled upon your weblog and wanted to say that I have really enjoyed surfing around your blog posts. After all I will be subscribing to your rss feed and I am hoping you write once more very soon!
Employment Law Manchester: In the past I have done work for oil refineries. It is in the oil companies interest (financially, politically) to implement a safe system of work. As we have recently seen with BP, unsafe systems can cost the company billions!
Judy Crouse: . I worked for twenty five years as a temp off and on at 102 different positions’. I worked for 66 different companies of which 23 have gone out of business. I even worked inside a few agencies. I have written a book about my experiences and hope that my readers will take away from my exercises, what not to do, and how to obtain work without relying on these agencies. I have tried to tell my tales with humor, giving credit where credit is due. I am on Facebook and I would love to hear from you. Judy M Crouse My booked is entitled Temp Tales an Expose’! It is available at www.friesenpress.com.
Employment Law Manchester: I think this article hits on a few commercial and sociological points. One point is that as China becomes(is) an industrial power the lifestyle of the workers is become more like that of the industrial countries of the west. To that extent, the people are becoming like drones and are facing the old adage of "living to work" rather than "working to live". I cant see that sending in clowns is going to effect the situation in the long term.
Employment Law Manchester: It would appear that this judgement is a backwards step for employees Employment Law Manchester Office Phone: 0121 268 3157 Mobile: 07809416714 Email: info@employment-law-manchester.co.uk Employment Law Manchester Legal and Capital Ltd. Registered in England and Wales
NathalieGottschalk: We are very sorry to hear about your situation. We would advise that the best place to seek advice will be to go directly to the Indian Immigration Office.
priya: i am citizen of india and i got married witha nepali hence i had both indian and nepal passport and now my indian passport is retained with indian immigration office how can i get back my indian passport am ready to return nepal passport.
Anushka: Hi! Am currently pursuing my masters in Fashion Business Management at the University of Westminster and was wondering if Impactt would be open to the idea of doing a guest lecture with us regarding ethics in fashion and give a deeper insight into the kind of measures retail companies take.Do let me know your thoughts - have shared my email id above.Thank you and look forward to hearing from you, Anushka
Gez Walsh: Surely when you applied for these jobs you did so in full knowledge of the hours you would be required to work?
Mass deportations to the East - Page 11 - Religious Education Forum: [...] in our own back yards, or indeed homes and offices, remain unnoticed and under-prioritised. Migrant Workers in the UK Jobless migrants living in shanty towns offered free flights home Jobless migrants living in [...]
Michael: It is funny, because unfortunately some US employers retaining the passports of their employees in US too. :-(
Daz: I work in a restaurant/bar i work over 6 hours and get 1 break however i also smoke and it end up with me not have a fag for 6 hours but the manager and assistant manager go whenever they feel like it, i we do we get disciplinary is that legal?
egyptian towels: This needs more awareness. I think I will post something about it on my blog as I didn't realise before.
Katie: I work 8.30 - 17.00 as a driver in the motor trade mon-fri and 8am-12 every other Sat, my Boss takes 30 mins every day off my wage for lunch, although today as an example I had 12 mins to eat my lunch and get a coffee, sometimes i don't get a break at all, is this legal as am driving all day?? oh and 17.00 finish?? pah! never finish on time but don't get paid over time.
Sina Mirzaei: I work for New look in United Kingdom as a sales assistant and my ambition is to work my way up to a level where I'll be monitoring working condition for our employees overseas. I'm actually in process of becoming an supervisor if by any chance I get the job I'll definitely end up in this field and this article has truly inspired me to do more for our staff in terms of support and creating much friendlier atmosphere at work.
Alana Smith: Thanks for sharing Martin. It appears that where the improvement of human rights is the ultimate goal, there is always a tricky balance to mainain. As you describe yourself, acknowledging and supporting the actions that some governments have taken to protect human rights is incredibly important otherwise NGOs are considered one-sided and unnecessarily adversarial, always wanting to pick a fight. Equally important, however, is the importance of continuing to remind governments of their responsibility to protect the human rights of workers in their country whom they are reliant on for economic growth. Migrant workers and those working in low paid jobs whose rights often fail to be protected must be seen as more than economic units of labour but as humans whose rights must be recognised and protected. Keep the updates coming through!
Alana Smith: Thanks for sharing your success in Bangladesh with some of New Look's suppliers. Whilst I'm not from the UK, I gather that New Look is quite a popular brand - not only are you creating a better working environment for workers at one end of the supply chain - you are also opening up purchaser's eyes to the impact of their purchasing power. Be interesting to know how much New Look advertises/promotes the improvements in their supply chain over the past few years. Keep the updates coming!
Kamal: Actually the problem only can be solved when you start thinking like a human being. Untill you put yourself in their shues you can't understand their problems.
Peter Hyatt: www.seamusoriley.blogspot.com Stacey clearly is mature beyond her years and not at all self absorbed as others. The new guy, from the farm, was a refreshing replacement. Josh's change was fascinating Above all, however, was the comments offered by Stacey. I could not help but think how proud her parents must be. Compassionate, hard working and ladylike throughout. The cursing by some was a sad thing and the lazy character was unbearable Thanks for a good article! Peter Hyatt. Maine USA
Shim: very good point, well i'm thinking about this as my master desertation topic relating to branding effect. is there anybody has any idea plz send me
cara barnhart: Will be looking for the fair trade stamp on purchases thanks to the show....real eye opener
Roger: My wife is currently working 12 hour shifts. Theoretically she gets one 20-minute break and two ten-minute breaks in 12 hours. In practice they are presently so short-staffed that they get no breaks whatsoever. Is this permitted even for the short-term emergency?
Jason: We are enjoying the show, but I find that Manos is a spoiled rotten brat, as well as an embarrassment.
Pete: I am a delivery driver i only get 20 minutes in an 8 hour shift. I drive a 3.5 tonne van - is this right
odette: hi! can u give me an idea, because presently my employer wants to keep my passport with them. In this how can i refuse them taking my passport. thanks
odette: hi! can u give me an idea, because presently my employer wants to keep my passport with them. In this how can i refuse then taking my passport. thanks
Abby: One would think that in a world so technologically advanced like the one we live in, where the previous Iranian election was best tracked by social media sites, that the accessibility of information would expose these crooked antics and migrant workers would not be subject to such conditions. The fact of the matter is that although progress is being made in these transitional nations we are not there yet. I think it is wonderful that your company works to not only bring exposure to these business practices but also works to solve the problems in an economical and humane fashion. Very impressive.
John McCormack: I am irish,but have had to move to germany where my partner is from,because of a job i applied for in devon england a month ago.I came out to germany to visit my partners family on the understanding that i had a job as a stud manager on a stud in devon (un named for legal purposes).The owner of the stud and myself had numorous phone calls to each other and at no time did i tell him that i worked with stallions,i was at the understanding that i was managing the broodmare side of the stud as he had told me in every phone call,I drove 600 miles back from germany to devon to be let go 3 days into the job.He also agreed to pay me the cost of my trip which i never recieved.Im very hurt and angry by what happened Regards john
Jamie Huskisson: Fascinating
Karl: i know that you are entitled to a 20 minute break when you work over 6 hours in a day. so regarding working over 6 hours a day, how long are you allowed to work continuously before your entitled to a break?
BLEH: I think that when the police took them Back to the camps was unfair.
mags: i work 0900 -1730 and have 1 hour lunch break. i have just learned that our company have discontinued the x2 10 min breaks. are they within thier rights to do this?
Yianni: I think this is really cool!
shahin: great job
Breaks at work? - Netmums Coffeehouse: [...] [...]
Passport ‘Intimidation’ « Sreekrishnan’s Weblog: [...] Impactt – “Give me back my Passport” dated July 22, 2009 [...]
J.S: Just to clarify, when I say "10:55" I mean 22:55 and "11 or 12" I mean 23:00 and 00:00. Forgot to put AM and PM on them.
J.S: I work on a cross-channel ferry starting at 9:25 and finishing at 10:55 on paper, but it's very often until 11 or 12 when we get into port. I'm given two 30 minute unpaid breaks for meals in the day although sometimes when it's very busy they try to make us take less than that (nowadays, i've taken to asking when I'll see the rest of my break and if I don't get an answer, I go for 30. I've been screwed over too many times). But the big problem we have is overtime. Like I said, officially, we work 13.5 hours and that's what we're paid for. But if we work 14.5 or even 15 hours, we still only get paid for 13.5 and it doesn't get noted on our hours worked. They won't pay for the time if it's less than two hours extra and that doesn't roll over. In one week (I do 7days working / 7days off, except when they decide to give us extra shifts) I worked nearly 10 hours extra and it wasn't noted on my hours worked or my wages! Surely that can't be legal...
Cherry Evans: I am a carer for my local government and I agree the 6 hours is a long time to work without a break. I feel really tired sometimes, especially when some service users are more complex than others, reams of paperwork to do(and more to come I understand) and the concentration when driving, it really takes it out of you. Then come the 20mins break(on occasion we don't get because of taking into consideration driving to the next location)is spent at my workplace..behind the wheel.
Paul: I work in a busy call centre, I start work at 8am-5pm, I have a half hour lunch and a 20 mins break time which I can take when I want but I am expected to go to the toilet and get drinks within this time and if we go over this we get an email advising us that we have exceeded it and it must be reduced, we also have a 15 minute team meeting in the morning which I presume they do this to call a screen break (rather than give us an extra 15 mins to ourselves). Does this sound legal?
Nussara: Hi, I find this article very interesting. It makes me think further whether to what extent this can be applicable in Thailand where migrant workers'original docs are always retained by employers with similar excuses. A difference I can see is the Thai Labor Law has no provisions regarding the retaining of employees' original documents. Why? Someone explains to me this is because Thailand hasn't ratified ILO Convention on Forced Labour (C29 and C105. Therefore, in terms of workplace assessment in Thailand's context, I think we need to cite retailers or brands' Codes of Conducts or Ethical Standards to make employers comply. What's ridiculous is some Brand representatives try not to touch on this issue simply because it's not illegal against the local law. In fact, this is non-compliance subject to Brands' ethical standards, and the problem of retaining workers' original docs and/or work permit do exist.
Newsnight: Immigrant Workers Exploited : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] follows a flurry of reports this year relating to the mistreatment of migrant workers in the UK garment, meat and fruit [...]
Newsnight: Immigrant Workers Exploited : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] to and eventually took their concerns to London Citizens, a community group which campaigns for living wages and works to improve pay and conditions for low paid workers in the capital. These stories are not [...]
Alan James: The supermarket should be the target because after watching this programme I had serious concerns about food hygiene and food safety despite the programme and factory stating they had strict hygiene procedures. Some conerns were, all workers having short sleeve shirts, so any cuts or grazes on their arms could lead to product contamination. Most workers did not cover their noses with the face masks. No workers were wearing gloves. The supervisors who are supposed to set an example had the masks under their chins. Therefore, you have to question what sort of pre-qualification or validation was carried out on this factory before orders were placed.It does seem that the only criteria/condition was a low price.
L: I understand the 'entitled' bit re: 20mins but can an employee force you to do an unpaid break. For example I want to go home early and would like to work through...
Fashion Industry Ethics: Ethical Standards for the Worker is Good Business for the Corporations and the Consumers LOVE IS THE KEY « Love is the Key: [...] Marks & Spencer plc [...]
Gangmaster’s Licensing laws to be extended to the construction industry : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] are pleased to hear that the Gangmaster Licensing laws will be extended to the construction industry as part of a government inquiry into the number of [...]
The Cost of Living, in Britain and Beyond : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] Across the developing world however and in the production lines of international supply chains millions are being paid wages that are inadequate for a worker to support themselves and their family. For instance the living wage debate has been argued heatedly in Cambodia where the legal minimum wage in Cambodia is $45 but a living wage has been argued to be closer to $93. Minimum wages in the global south remain fixed whilst the cost of living increases. [...]
The Cost of Living, in Britain and Beyond : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] acceptable level of minimum income is as important as ever. Furthermore this research can perhaps speak to a wider, international debate on the living [...]
Gecko Villa, Northeast Thailand: The crew who filmed the BBC's "Blood Sweat and Takeaways" stayed at Gecko Villa whilst filming the Rice episode in Thailand. Whilst dramatization is a necessity to ensure viewers, the overall picture generated was - within the confines of the genre - a suitably provocative one for Westen viewers. Gecko Villa is a vacation villa in the middle of the rice fields of Thailand's Northeast, and has succeeeded in offering alternative and sustainable employment to the local villagers, and enjoys a good number of repeat visitors who are looking to get off the beaten path and to make a difference when they travel. If the average Western consumer cannot influence the giants of the food industry, they certainly can make informed choices in respect of their holidays! Had Manos, Stacey or others in the team elected to spend their holidays in the region (rather than in a Bangkok corporate hotel) they could have tried out rice planting or reforestation to the extent they chose, whilst enjoying freshly cooked Thai chicken or Tom Yam Kung, knowing the proceeds would remain entirely within the local community and contribute to education and healthcare for the locals, and guarantee an alternative income stream for villagers who otherwise are often forced into migration as demonstrated by the series.
sabet amin awwad: i think you have to cooperate with NGOS valunteers to make your effort much more affect.. Journalist - Dubai
Ma Maposa: this program really opened my eyes to reality. i would like to be actively involved or take part in any other up coming shows.
BOYKO ATANASOV: This is VERY GOOD! Keep going like that!
Elica Johnson: I work from 8am- 8pm. Getting paid for 11 h, because we are entitled to 1h break(which we don't get paid for). My colleagues who work daytime get paid fro the full 12h including their break. I believe that when people work for 12h they need more than 20 minutes to be efficient.
lavina: primark should let them make clothes for them so they dont need to be poor. what they need to do is raise there payments!!!!!
Chris B: I work in a restaurant and often work from 11am to 11pm (and sometimes even longer) and its still only 20 minutes. Its ridiculous. 12 hours on your feet is a very long time
wayne: I work in a cal centre where i start at 9am and finish at 5pm. I have two ten min breaks and half hour unpaid lunch. We are always busy and feel like it is none stop and I have a medical condition with my feet and sometimes I need to get up and walk around but too scared to say anything because im agency and when i need time off to go to the doctors for regular blood test they tell me they dont have to give me the time off and to book any doctors or medical appointments when im off but this is not always able to happen. am i in my right to get up and walk around and also to go to my appointments, also i believe there is a law that if your eyes hurt while at work due to the screen you are able to get up and have a break.
Network Clothing: Mapping Homeworker Supply Chains : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] community assessments utilised a participatory worker-centred approach to provide a real insight into the situation of the homeworkers. The outputs from this [...]
Blood, Sweat and Takeaways : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] the success of last year’s Blood Sweat and T-shirts, the reality TV programme which dropped young fashionistas in Indian garment factories, to [...]
MartinButtle: Thanks for your comment. We are pleased that this case study has inspired you.
Apparel Supplier India: Thank you very much for sharing this post, I read this post and come to know about New Look I also visited your given website and got information about New look company its good that this company is improving working conditions and this is more productive and profitable factories.
Jane Blacklock: Thanks for your comment Jan. Your concerns are common, especially within call centres. Unfortunately there does not appear to be anything wrong with what your employer is doing, as you are being given well over the legally required rest breaks. However, there is guidance from the Health and Safety Executive on how to ensure a safe working environment for those who are at a computer all day. You can find this here: http://www.safeworkers.co.uk/VDUsAndComputers.html Issues like eye strain and repetitive strain injury are the main concerns. Although this guidance is unlikely to prompt your employer to increase your total breaks, it may encourage them to spread your breaks across the day to reduce the strain on workers.
» Blog Archive Impactt Ltd | Recruit.org.nz: [...] Pradesh as well as Rajasthan, where recognition of abuses is low. … See some-more here: » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd Filed under: Immigration and getting work, Job Seekers, Recruitment, Recruitment News, Top [...]
Jan: I work in a callcentre 8am - 6pm Lunch is 11am - 12pm with 2x10 minute breaks from 12pm - 6pm it is extremely busy with a constant queue of waiting calls and the computer is in constant use. 6 hours on a computer with only 2x10 minute breaks (toilet and collecting drink)is too much. Is it legal?
Jane Blacklock: Thanks for your comment Ayesha, your points are really interesting. In our experience these conditions are common and usually stem from a desire to reduce costs. Much of our work is focused on trying to convince managers that by improving conditions they will actually increase their profits. This is a difficult task as the conclusions are not always intuitive! But the programme seems to be raising some eyebrows in Dubai itself, with inspectors going in to investigate conditions. Let’s hope this is the impetus for radical changes!
Vishal Jodhani: Very interesting angle and a thought-provoking read.
Ayesha: I saw the documentary Slumdogs and Millionaires on TV. The conditions of the workers appeared even worse than what they would suffer back home. The water in the toilets and shower was stopped on purpose. This raises the question whether Dubai has water shortage or the workers were tortured on purpose? The true reason is the later but for what reason? Control,Degrading treatment,Ignorance, Colour, Arrogance..? How can such a rich country not able to provide basic faciclities to the people who are actually building the country!
Jane Blacklock: Company at the centre of Panorama investigation respond to allegations - http://www.arabianbusiness.com/552047-arabtec-ceo-hits-out-after-labour-camp-tv-show
Ethics: No Longer a Luxury for Luxury Brands? : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] at best a ‘luxury’ and at worst, the preserve of sandal-wearing weirdos. In 2007, Impactt blogged about WWF’s ‘Deeper Luxury’ report which investigated the performance of 10 luxury brands against issues such as ethical trade, [...]
Jane Blacklock:
Thanks for your comment Adam - we have been getting a fair amount of traffic on this blog and it is good to know that people are interested in it!

Personally I think that this is a very literal reading of the law, and seems to go against the original intention. The rules for agricultural workers are phrased differently but allow them to have a break for every 5 hours that they work. I do wonder what the EAT was going for with this one!

You are right that what would appear to be a rule intended to empower workers and improve conditions is now empowering employers and allowing them to reduce break times with impunity.
MartinButtle: Adam - thanks for your comment
Slumdogs amongst Dubai’s millionaires : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] last year’s Primark on the Rack, BBC Panorama has been investigating labour standards again. This time the BBC exposé focuses on [...]
Adam: Ridiculous, 6 hours is a long time, especially in retail/customer service. No break for 6 hours - considering that means you can't technically eat for 6 hours, is a law that means the workers get screwed over while the companies profit. This is even more true now that jobs are scarce and people are afraid to stand up to their employers in case they lose their jobs.
Knitwears garment: I am a kintwear factory worker. As the crisis sweep UK. I 'm really worried about my future
ricky pointing: Its a Great Challenge to Economy
Jamie Huskisson: Fantastic news. Congratulations to Impactt - I look forward to reading further about your new office as you post about it.
BMW Criticised for ‘scandalous’ treatment of Agency Workers : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] May Impactt commented on a new deal between businesses and trade unions that would give agency and temporary [...]
martin: Hi Robert, Thanks for your comment. We are pleased to get the workers views on this point.
Robert, 26: i,m currently on strike at LOR You have hit the nail on the head with your comments on social dumping. I've worked away from my home in Glasgow for over a year now within the UK. I feel more has to be said about what the effects of social dumping is going to have within the UK. Is it right that free movement of labour within the EU will eventully bring my earnings and standard of living down to meet that of a fellow european rather than bring his/hers up to mine? Government spin doctors and pro-europeans can say what they like about the benifits of the EU. But the future of the working class of this country is bleak to say the least. The government bails out our wreckless banks to the tune of billions yet wont even give our concerns the time of day. They know whats happening is wrong ALAN JOHNSON said so himself yet they stand back without any consideration for the british tax payer in fear of upsetting europe. Instead why not rock the boat in europe and see what the responce is. I feel the problem we're having at LOR is our stike commitee does not have enough awareness of european politics to know we can't win this fight without forcing the government to look into the issue of social dumping. This needs to be put more in the spot light if skilled British workers have a future because at the moment the arguments being put forward being laughed at by TOTAL. This is not the first case of suspected under cutting and it wont be last. The only way to win this one is to challenge the government on their loyalty to the British people over their european ambitions. Ram Alan johnson's words down their throats and show the country that they really dont care about the working class anymore. Its all about the bankers and the big companies now!
Wild cats, discrimination, social dumping and barges : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] The apparent connections between these continued demonstrations and the Laval and Viking cases of social dumping brought before the European Court of Justice in 2007 and 2008 makes us wonder whether the dispute over sub-contacting at the oil refinery is another case of [...]
Bobbie Gardner: Hi there guys! An interesting read! I think community arts can be really effective at exploring the different facets that come into play with social injustice. The arts, especially music is a major passion for the majority of young people. It can serve to help them to see themselves and the world differently; the 'greyness' you were talking about earlier, allowing for a positive contribution to their own futures - as well as society's. I would be really interested to learn about participatory audits that included music making.
Using art, music and film to discover unmet needs — Antonio Gould: [...] Ethical trade consultants Impactt are now using creative approaches to help former victims of child labour. [...]
Antonio Gould: What a lovely image! This stuff is so important when working with young people - fascinating to see how participatory educational approaches are being applied in this context. Keep us posted on this!
Primark in new sweatshop allegation storm « Centre for Sustainable Fashion: [...] Read article Read response from Impactt [...]
Shauna Chapman: Every time Primark and the other devils make a slip up it's a boost for ethical fashion. It's the equivalent of some poor chap eating a cheap sausage and finding evidence that it really isn't as it seems.
Primark embroiled in UK labour standards scandal : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] Primark are again on the receiving end of allegations relating to labour abuses in their supply chain, this time the factory involved is in the UK. The Observer, BBC and News of the World this weekend alleged that illegal immigrants are being paid just over half the minimum wage in a Manchester-based garment firm supplying Primark. The supplier, TNS Knitwear, may have breached a number of key employment and immigration laws. Illegal Pakistani, Afghan and Indian migrant workers were allegedly being paid £3 an hour and working 12-hour days, seven days a week. TNS Knitwear supplies an estimated 20,000 garments to Primark every week. Undercover footage of the factory is available to view on the BBC website. These allegations occur only six months after illegal outsourcing and child labour was found in Primark’s Indian supply chain. [...]
Rosey Hurst: Hi Tone, really interesting thought. We get nearer to this kind of thing when we are working with groups trying to shift their perceptions and change their attitudes to themselves and their potential. We sometimes use art and singing to encourage former child workers to dream about a better future not involving factory work. By getting them to visualise their dreams,we can encourage them to stick with school to reach these objectives.
Antonio Gould: This is fascinating, and made me think of the parallel move in education and youth consultancy. In fact it makes me wonder whether your audits ever include more creative approaches? I wonder whether doing work with drama, music and film would be an interesting way of extracting what people really want and really need?
August: A wage of $6/day sure is high if you keep to the real figures in a country like Cambodia that i visited myself in 2004. My guess would be that $2/day is more in the right scope, as a comment. Will look into the game!
UK Opt-out of Working Time Directive Under Fire : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] to keep the UK’s status quo and in February this year finally agreed to lend support to the Temporary and Agency Workers Directive as a bargaining tool to maintain the opt-out. There is little question that Agency workers will [...]
BrandCultureTalk Blog: Here's another perspective on Nike's corporate responsibility: http://brandculturetalk.com/2008/08/20/to-be-true-or-not-to-be-true-that-is-the-question-for-nike/#more-37
Mashuda Khatun Shefali: I saw the War on Want report before it was published.I have to say that, I do not think it is representative at all of Bnagaldesh's garment industry. Currently, Bangladesh has more than 5,500 factories and they have visited only 6 factories and previously met 60 workers (2005) and latest 115 workers, and they seems have chosen six bad factroies. To be a proper study, they should look atleast 15% factories of different categories and they should interview to 15% of workforce.But they have not done this.So the study does not have the professional research character. I believe, this study is completely unfair,biased and on purposes, that they have chosen certain factories to put these industrial sector in a bad light, and to support their opinions. It is all negative, and none of it possitive at all. Nor have they been polite enough to publish this report first in Bangladesh, so it can be seen and discussed by the trade unions, labour support NGOs there, and by the government and the suppliers. By criticizing buyer's audit (Dodgy audits) also indictes that they are uncomfortable with the efforts of remediation and capacity building of the factiories towards enforcing the social and legal compliance that enable the improvement of the working conditions and labour standards. The garment industry has provided a way forward for millions of women in Bangldesh. It is the begining of a women's movement for greater economic empowerment.For now, there is no other alternative sector where women can work at that scale.I represent women workers in Bangladesh. Such types of reports is just damages our prospects.
Fashioning la futura conferenza | h-fashion.it moda fashion e gossip: [...] Fonte Main page : Impactt Ltd [...]
Fashioning the Future Conference : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] the just the environmental effects. For example, the concept of sustainability could incorporate paying a living wage to workers in the same way that it involves eliminating polluting industrial processes from production; in [...]
Insider view from the ETI annual conference « Centre for Sustainable Fashion: [...] would like to know what went on at last week’s Ethical Trading Initiative conference, read Impactt’s blog for an insider’s [...]
Material Concerns: How responsible sourcing can deliver the goods for business and workers in the garment industry « Centre for Sustainable Fashion: [...] November 3, 2008 by nbaldwin This report has been produced by Impactt and Traidcraft. It is aimed at the sourcing and commercial directors of retailers and brands and sets out a new approach to sourcing, which the report claims, both protects and enhances commercial goals and improves labour practices in the supply base. The report provides a set of operational principles setting out the ground rules for efficient and ethical purchasing and scorecards for buyers and suppliers to incentivise efficiency and better ethical behaviour. The report is based on interviews with retailers, sourcing offices, agents, manufacturers and workers. The research was conducted in the UK, Hong Kong, China, Bangladesh and Cambodia. Read the report by downloading the pdf at the Impactt website. [...]
Louisa: Good words.
dorothy: nicola i agree with you love u 2 x
dorothy: we think primark should not do child labour at all love you xxxx
shahriar: I never support child labour. But we should have a look some background, why a child is a labour in India? Why s/he come to a factory instead going in school. I got the answer as well. Because their family is not capable to funding them for study...I think study is a very irrelevant matter in this case, they even don’t get their basic needs. And their government also not capable to funding them for food, accommodation. That why, they are getting involve with these kind of clothing production job. Media just do some coverage and insist the factory authority to fired them, But they don’t do any follow up about these children. Most of the cases these children take illegal way to earning and girls go for prostitution. That is more shocking and sad. Shahriar 3rd Year Marketing student
craig: http://ccdm04.blogspot.com/
Kelsey: This sounds like a great idea, but I'm not sure how practical it would be for abuses other than gross human rights violations. To me, there are too many violators in too many places. Even stopping child labor abuses could be difficult. In the 90's in Bangladesh when the West boycotted Made in Bangladesh products, unions in Bangladesh protested the boycott. The amount of the street children had increased and some out of work kids turned to prostitution. Everything exists in a context, and it's tough to account for a world of contexts in an international law.
Fashion News » Blog Archive » Let’s Clean up Fashion Report 2008: Ambitious plans, but little …: [...] MartinButtle added an interesting post today on Letâ
Let’s Clean up Fashion Report 2008: Ambitious plans, but little progress : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] Clean up Fashion’ report on the labour standards of high street fashion retailers. Like previous reports it makes fascinating [...]
Obtainable But Disposable, Can Fashion Be Sustainable? : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] Panorama’s ‘Primark on the rack’ (BBC1, 9pm, 23 June 2008) and the BBC reality TV programme Blood, Sweat and T-shirts.The report highlights the paradox of a spending culture that has seen the average number of items [...]
Tipping in the Service Industry - Progress! : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] in the UK, the government have announced their intention to reform the rules on the use of tips to ‘top-up’ wages to minimum wage [...]
martin: Thanks Antonio. It is a real challenge.
Antonio Gould:
Excellent post Martin. Fascinating to see how you go about improving these things.
Homeworking in the Indian garment industry: what are the issues and how can homeworkers lives be improved : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] we noted before homeworking is endemic in the Indian garment industry. It is a fallacy to believe that only Primark [...]
Nicola: it is terrible this is what they do to these children and then they lie saying that they do not use child labour its terrible
dara yazdani: Hi Interesting thoughts. I sure most international retailers are involved in the murky world of child labour. Deadlines are tight and margins are even tighter. There will always be low paid workers willing to fill the demands of the multi-nationals as long as we have skewed market the favours the West. I have blogged about this on my website www.myspace.com/darayazdani. Please come check it out and leave a comment. Regards Dara
Tesco gets a Baracking over labour standards, low wages and animal welfare : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] ChinaLabour standards are now an established issue at the Tesco AGM. Last year War on Want filed a shareholder resolution focused on living wages in Bangladesh. In 2006, Action Aid brought South African farm-worker [...]
Debbie: The net result of the Panorama expose is that Primark pulled work from three factories; all those people lose work at short notice. Primark merely re-positions. Child labour is awful but better than starving. Do you really think that those children will now go to school?
MartinButtle: Wow really impressed by the number of people who commented on this post
MartinButtle: Thanks all for your comments
MartinButtle: Thanks Andy and Trudy for your comments.The Ethical Trading Company looks like an interesting initiative. Its important that these communities can earn money without resorting to child labour.
MartinButtle: Thanks Ali for your comment. We still maintain that workers should be given a voice. Its not just the low-cost brands that are vulnerable this kind of outsourcing so it might not be as simple as consumers paying a little more. Although this would help.
Andy: Trudy, how exactly do you know that other companies are not exploiting people too? Higher prices generally just mean higher margins, not that more is being spent on the supply chain. I fear that Primark is becoming the Tesco of the clothing world, an easy target because of lazy reporting that just focuses upon one player. Clearly Primark is not alone. Furthermore, why do we always have to rely on the lowest common denominator? It's miles travelled with food and now child labour for human rights. Child labour in itself isn't wrong, the reality is this is the only way many families can earn enough money to feed and clothe themselves. More important is guaranteeing their safety , wages and quality of surroundings.
Ali: You say "We are therefore none the wiser about how workers (adults and children) felt about their situation..." - surely this is a distraction from the fact that they have no choice? Even if they were blissfully happy to be earning *any money at all* it would not go any way toward justifying the pitiful wages offered by the subcontractors - who, to be fair to them, could never deliver the contract within budget and on time otherwise - the problem clearly lies with the unreasonable expectations and pressure levied by Primark on the original factory. If consumers here pay a bit more for their clothes then the communities we witnessed would be considerably better off and the children would not need to work - it's a simple equation non?
Brittany: Boo Primark I used to Love Primark it. But No more!!
Andrew: If you are concerned by the ethical standards with which clothes are produced try www.ethicaltradingcompany.com
Trudy: With risk of sounding like a cliche i think we can all do our bit to change what we don't like in the world. By not buying from really cheap shops who clearly must be expoiting someone to give us the prices we have now we can literally 'vote with our purchases' or non-purchases so more high street shops and companies take the issue of valuing the people that make what we wear and the environment more seriously. Check out www.ethicaltradingcompany.com - set up to counteract so much of what was revealed in last night's documentary. It produces beautiful clothes and accessories at reasonable prices, is environmentally friendly and fair trade. It even gives a large percetage of profits back to the comunities that it works with; in advocacy, water and sanitation, eduactaion, healthcare programes.. There are other ways and other people out there making a difference so worth looking around...
Sponsor a Child India: Hi Martin Thank you for commenting on our charity's blog. Having spent quite a bit of time in India it is clear that child labour is commonplace, from simply running errands, to working in the fields, to hard labour in quarries. We feel that by encouraging parents to allow their children to go to school is the only long term solution to the problem. Our charity (http://www.heal.co.uk/)is actively trying to address this through it's poverty trap project. Thank You. Matthew
Noelle: 'Brian'.... very defensive... not a PR exec for Primark then?
Geoff Lancaster: Hi Martin We do agree that working with suppliers must be the priority if the value of out investment in the developing world as a supply source (£700 million) is to benefit those who put in the effort. The three suppliers we sacked had all been audited at least once recently were all apparently complying with a remediation/improvement programme we had given them and were all deceiving us by using unauthorised subcontracting. Trust and transparency had broken down. Enough was enough.We will continue working in Tamil Nadu and have announced a range of measures to both tighten up our inspection procedures and to help the local people as grass roots level Geoff
Integrity Staffing Solutions: We do not disagree with permanent employment, but we want to help other people find jobs and employers too to find workers that are versatile, and reliable. When it comes to rights of temporary and agency workers, we see to it that their rights are met. Salaries are justified as well as the employers are happy with the contract. Its okay to criticize temp jobs, but we should also look into temp agencies closely, because some of them do business with a heart. We must learn to ask, investigate and learn. Integrity Staffing Solutions, http://www.integritystaffing.com
Hannah: Although I'm sure primark do have questionable standards on production, what about other high street stores? At least primark don't put a huge mark up on garments unlike other stores do, I'm sure everybody has enough common sense to realise that paying that little means somebody is missing out. Yet do you feel the same when you purchase something from Topshop or Gap for example? I hope if this programme does air they highlight the fact that this is not only applicable to primark!
Panorama, Primark, Child Labour and the Alexa Chung factor : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] news only adds to the pressure on the company’s ethical standards following recent unwanted attention after the cancellation of Alexa Chung’s sweatshop experiment in Covent Garden entitled ‘The [...]
Comedian: I have actually worked closely on NGO reports associated with labour standards in the Third World. And some of the largest steady stream of complaints received direct from the garment labour centres are to do with Primark employees. Many of whom are denied basic labour rights, paid an absolute pittance and afforded no basic human dignity or respect. If anyone with a modicum of common sense stops to ask themselves: in London, one of the most expensive cities in the world, and a fashion capitalin an advent of hyperinflation and the fashion retail industry elevating costs to previously unseen levels; HOW are PRIMARK able to keep their prices so consistently low? Perhaps this is done out of the goodness of their generous hearts? Perhaps this is all in honour of the poorer consumer? Yes. That must be it.
Migrant Workers in the UK… Silent Exploitation?: [...] The Bad Astronomer wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptA recent Guardian leader raised the issue of ‘unheard workers’ in the UK who are suffering under abhorrent conditions working for agencies in industries such as agriculture and food packing. The leader states that, in direct contrast to … [...]
Primark Worker:
The reason the show was not aired last sunday was because Primark as a company needed 10 days to be able to brief their staff about the show and the relevant response to make about the programme to any customers.Working at Primark myself I have been told repeatedly that Primark is an ethical company and that we pay the workers in those countries fairly. I have on may times been asked to sign contacts saying that i am aware of the reasons why we are ethical and i hope that this programme shows a balanced and unbiased approach to our company and we are not the only highstreet shops to purchase our stock from these factories. Cant wait to see the show.
Brian, UK: I was disapointed that this programme was pulled from Channel 4 - having monitored the growth of this business I have read one or two uneducated comments from the public who know little or nothing about the company - PRIMARK would never have paid C4 to pull the screening of this programme - I'm confident that PRIMARK would have liked the opportunity to present their point of view fairly. PRIMARK do have an ethical trading policy - and I'm sure that they do everything to conform to working practices and laws set by the EU and the relevant employment agencies in India, Africa, Asia - anywhere in the world.
chris smith: see Mardi Gras: Made in China it's about a similar topic. DVD is on Amazon.com
marie: It was pulled as they discrinimated against one company even tho the same factorys makes clothes for pretty much every retailer. It has only been post-poned but the programme that gets aired is likely to have been heavily edited to show both sides of the story as it is unfair to show just the problems and none of the work being done to help these countries
gavin: i think primark paid channel 4 to boycot the programme, not happy
‘Devil Wears Primark’ pulled off air : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] much publicised ‘Devil Wears Primark’ show off air. We are hugely disappointed, as we were eagerly looking forward to the show. We had anticipated some excellent in-factory footage and thought that the use of a [...]
mary: Maybe it wasn't gagging of what the show was going to say or expose, maybe it was that it isn't just Primark who are the culprits or indeed maybe the programme makers didn't have enough evidence to convict Primark of their supposed crimes. Has anyone thought that perhaps Primark take a much lower margin than the rest of the high street retailers & buy in much larger volume and thus are able to retail at a lower price? Perhaps Alexa Chung, advocate of Topshop, had a nasty surprise about her favourite high street brand?
Malcolm:
Eagerly awaited the advertised programme only to be told at last minute it was changed. I believe I would judge fairly for myself according to the quality of the programme and its evidence and then I get very annoyed that there seems some gagging of whatever it was going to say. And are we in a state where business can stop any damaging report into its conduct - that there's no freedom to try to tell the truth?
becca: im really confused as i wanted to watch devil wears primark...but i tuned into channel 4 at 9pm. And to my suprise without a paddle was on instead. There was nothing on the TV saying that there was a change. Im really confused.?!? Does anyone know when it will be on TV??
Paula: Really looking forward to this programme but it looks like it has been pulled for any broadcast. Anybody any ideas why??
Beth: Why isnt it on 2nite now? theres a film on instead :@
Martin Hall: 8 - Remove them from the process, refer that situation to industry remediation, proceed with those remaining 9 - Refer to local laws 10 - See #9 11 - See #8 12 - This may be an expected outcome, but should not stop the remediation process nor end the purchaser's obligations within that process
Martin Hall: 4 - Industry remediation must be employed 5 - Refer to existing local law and implement 6 - See #5 7 - See #5
Martin Hall: Who is expected to carry out the actions described in this section? Is it the factory? A social agency? Shared?
Martin Hall: Is there an agreed upon definition for "light work", or is it simply work that does not fall under the criteria for the "hazardous" or "dangerous" definitions?
Orlanda Ruthven: Where there are significant numbers of children found and they are below 15 years, I can see the huge value of this kind of intervention. But where the numbers are thin and the children are clustered around the age of 14-15, I worry about three things:- (i) the huge resources and focus invested in a high risk strategy and how this detracts attention from other more widespread, serious and critical violations (child labour rehab is especially susceptable to fetishisation and use for brand PR); (ii) sidestepping the whole question of how children's work is valued (i.e. what employers pay for it and whether children are being trained) in favour of simply insisting that it shouldn't have a value (or only a heavily defered one); (iii) leading from this, the employer's role: rather than working with employers to encourage responsibility as employers (in how they treat and train their young workers), the model imposes a light penance (i.e. they must pay a stipend until they come of age) but otherwise excludes them from the initiative. Especially for 14-15+ children, I would prefer a programme which focused on their employers' moral responsibility and pushed them towards being 'investors in people'.
Orlanda Ruthven: The interim period between work and remediation can be lengthy and expensive. If we remove a child immediately on discovering him/ her, then how will we know if a remedial programme is practical? Is it possible to permit them to stay in work and enforce minimum wages, as an interim measure? If the plan is to enforce 18 yrs as the minimum age then I think this should definately be done. My own feeling is that remediation should be confined to children under 14 in hazardous tasks, and that the effort among 14-17 year olds should be to enforce minimum wages. This would itself act as a disincentives to employers to hire them.
Orlanda Ruthven: The recommendations are one step more stringent than Indian law which rules that child labour is still legal where not hazardous & not listed as prohibited (though the list gets longer); hazardous and factory workers is legal for 15-18 year olds provided hours, breaks etc are regulated. So this begs the question whether Guidelines set a higer min age than the national law and work to enforce this, in a context when even the legal standard is being flouted. The last para of the section is even suggesting a higher standard than the bullpoints, branding all factory work as 'hazardous' and so inviting the exclusion of 15-18 year olds from all factories. The older the excluded child, the tougher their chances of adjustment outside of work.
Abi Rushton: clear reposiblity and communication lines are key to ensuring any remediation programme works. where people move or responsibilities are re-assigned these programmes can easily become de-railed. direction/ lead from the purchaser is key to enaure ongonig commitment from the employer. If they do not see this as a priority from their customer they will not see administering the programme as required or necessary ot their business.
Abi Rushton: a lot of the above issues amy be inter-related eg lack of support for remediation from suppleir may be a sympton of why a purchaser moves away from this site. one possible solution may the establishemtn of a 'trust' fund for the child which set up and paid into by the employer and is administered by the local expert or a member of the remediation team. This would ensure onoging payment of the childs stipend which amy give more assurance ot the child and their family and encourage them to stick with the programme. The employer would also then have more or less one payment which would mean remediation is easier to administrate and therefore less likely to become a chore that is not adhered to.
Abi Rushton: last course of action could be to withdraw future business from facotry/ agent who will not enegage in remediation plan. (this shows lack of shared vision re working standards which will ultimately give much higher risk to the purchaser) Development of proper training/ apprenticeship may be a more accpetable alternative to school for both employer and child, especially if child is close to legal working age (ie no more than 1-2 yrs below min working age)
Abi Rushton: where labour is from a sub-contractor the main employer needs to demonstrate effective managment systems to monitor labour providers own policies. this may be a role fo export associations/ govt departments along similar lines to UK gangmaster requirements. where id documents are not avialable, on-site doctors/ nurses could be used as a first stop for medical age opinion to seei f there are grounds for concern.
Abi Rushton: inlcusion of parent/ gaurdian/ family views on home visits would be useful to gain a fuller understanding of impacts of the remediation plan
Abi Rushton: no further comments
Abi Rushton: point 1 needs to be clarified to ensure this cannot be interpreted as sacking/ dismissing the child. As this is the first point it could be easily interpreted as such and as several factories/ agents still see dismissing the child worker as a desirable outcome this statement could give the wrong impression.
Abi Rushton: Need to make a clear distinction of the cihld being rmeoved from doing physical work and being sacked/ removed from payroll. It is conceivable thta for an older child it may be feasible/ dsirable to keep them working in the prodcution site, may be on reduced hours/ duties, and combine this with tutoring support.
Abi Rushton: this may be out of scope but one concern is that the issue of finding evidence of preivous child employment and prevention of renewed child employment does not seem to be covered by these guidelines.
Laura Beth Barnes: Additionally, knowing what resources are put aside by local governements. Such as in Guangdong has invested signficantly and offers scholarship to child/young workers who pursue an vocational/technical education.
Laura Beth Barnes: Consider the laws and resources available regarding education. Designing a remediation program based on local practices and laws with local resources have a greater sense of being achieved. Example in China the Ministry of Education offers one type of certfied education but one that is frequently thought to be more appropriate for child/young workers is the certified education approved by the Ministry of Personnel and HR.
Laura Beth Barnes: Additionally, what mechanisms are in place to ensure that child is not going to be put in further danger if being found out?
Laura Beth Barnes: Mentioned here "top production management" however in my experience what "top management" does vs. the actions taken by "middle management" are not always in sync. Including, "middle management" in discussions often leads to agreement and action understood by all.
Laura Beth Barnes: The above stated is straightforwad and to the point however, from my experience manufacturers struggle with the remediation plan aspect. Specifcally a realistic and feasible remediation plan that meets the needs of all those involved - child worker, child worker family, factory
Nathalie Ritchie: Would be good to have guidelines on how to identify and access local partner/NGOs/government resources and ensure the best skills for the remediation team are in place q. How will the local partner be resourced and budgeted for? Q. What if the child does not have a paremt or guardian?
Nathalie Ritchie: No additional comments
Nathalie Ritchie: I believe the guidelines would really support our process although the issues are difficult to categorise as each case is unique Guidelines on access to governement and local resoources/NGOs to support the remediation process are also key The main issues will be around ongoing commitment to remediation and managent of the agreed process over a potentially long period of time
Nathalie Ritchie: 8. Review the remediation team and ensure the right people/parties are involved. 9. As per previous comment on 6 10. Discuss the concerns in detail and address the issues. Ensure the employer commits to a future role that would be enhanced through education/qualifications. 11. Quite a likely scenario - again, review the team and re-establish memners if necessary 12. Part of the remediation plan needs to ensure that the result is not completely reliant on an indefinite commitment from the purchaser. The realities of business have to be taken into consideration so the remediation plan needs to be sustainable. However, the purchaser should aim to commit business for a reasonable amount of time and not pull out in the short term.
Nathalie Ritchie: 4. By supply chain I presume you mean the employer? In this case we would escalate the issue to our sourcing team to influence the decision. If our negotiating position is weak then we would expect the government and local NGOs to push the agenda. We may offer some shared support depending on the supplier and willingness to co-operate 5. Use external influence - NGOs/government etc 6. Use external local experts to try and influence the decision and look at the root cause for this decision. Are there concerns/reasons for this that can be argued against? 7. Look at alternative options - non-formal schooling
Nathalie Ritchie: 1. Would request that the child who is possibly underage is removed from the working environment until the age can be verified. If verification can't be provided in the immediate term follow the previous guidelines on immediate actions 2. Same guidelines should apply to the factory relating to the child regardless of if they are employed through an agent. An additional step would be to include the agent in the process of remediation. 3. Unions and government should be engaged and take a leading role in the remediation team. Not sure how to best access the right government people. I commented on requiring guidelines for this in a previous section
Nathalie Ritchie: Who leads the remediation program? Is it proposed that the responsibility of ongoing monitoring is owned by the buyer and they pay for a third party to manage this process?
Nathalie Ritchie: The term 'stipend' may not be commonly known I guess it will be in this context but would need to eb clearly communicated to the people this affects on site Suggest an option of contacting local NGOs/local labour authorities for the provision of safe accommodation/food etc The company involved in the assessment/the auditor may not always be in a position to organise this
Nathalie Ritchie: Agree with the principles
Nathalie Ritchie: no comment
Quick Indian Cooking » Pav Bhaji: After a fashion: [...] been hooked on a riveting BBC3 series [...]
Anita Nagarajan: Point 4: What happens when the supply chain is not prepared to fund some of the elements of the remediation programme. Point 6: If the child does not want to go back to school, what is the next best step that brands should follow?
Anita Nagarajan: I thinks the steps 1-3 on ongoing support and monitoring sound great. I've very supportive of this but feel it might be a bit too ambitious and that suppliers are unlikely to want to do all of this. Also, are there available third parties to undertake the monitoring?
Anita Nagarajan: I think it would be really helpful to have guidelines on what approach to adopt where the child and family are not interested in attending school and it is likely that the child will return to work (though not at the factory). I know this is not the purpose of the guidelines, but where things do not go to plan, I would like to know what the next best step would be. This could be an interim measure while long-term solutions are found. Long-term accommodation should not be at the factory site: completely agree with this. What happens where child is away from home and is on their own in a different city/town? Where the supplier has to cover all necessary costs, I think brands should also contribute to this as they have been benefiting from child labour. I think it might be unrealistic to expect the supplier to bear the full costs. It should be best practice for the brands that are sourcing from that factory to contribute to the costs. Where the supplier has to bear all the costs
Anita Nagarajan: Could further guidance be provide when clarifying the true identify and age of the child? For example, where you state 'Contact local labour authorities to validate identification', how would this be done whilst protecting the identify of the child so that they do not suffer any negative consequences? Also, what would a medical check involve? Might this be a bit intimidating for children?
Anita Nagarajan: Recognise that from Impactt's experience it is impossible for children to both work and be schooled but does this mean that even light work cannot be undertaken if it does not interfere with schooling? My concern is that the child may still need to undertake some work in order to provide some income to parents/family. Without this recognition, would children and families buy-into these guidelines?
Maritha Lorentzon: 1. The workers word always weight heavier then management in a case like this. If there should be a problem to get an age proof, we would act on the age as told by worker. 2.The factory always have the responsibility for all workers involved in the production- including temporary workers employed trhough agent/contractor. That can never be negotiated. 3. Unions and government can be involved in a broder context of preventing child labour, but not on a case to case level.
laura:
Hi,

It was relly great program. Finally child labour problem on TV.
Children shouldn´t work. They should play and learn and just be happy.

I am Centras Saint Martins fashion design
student. We did a collection against child labour "dream a little dream", making 3 garments. Each of them represents an idea what children should live their childhood: play, learn and just be children.
We a competition at our university and exhibited our work in Manchester.
These 3 garments are perfect instalation for window display. It is very colourful, peaceful, but still presents the mesege.
Please text me if you have a interest.

Thank you
Michelle Newbigin: General comments: 1. Need to seperate Trafficked from Voluntary child labour and give more detailed guidance on dealing with Trafficked. 2. Most of the guidlines and remediation refer to children and we have commented accordingly. We believe that a different approach would be necessary for young workers - and more of an apprenticship type approach would be needed.
Michelle Newbigin: 9. If the parent doesn't loose out financially this shouldn't be a problem but would need careful handling and a promise of a better job in the factroy when finished school 10. see above 12. Purchaser would continue to monitor the situation until child reaches school leaving age.
Michelle Newbigin: 4. Depends on individual circumstances - we may find internal resource to match factory contribution 5. Supplier/agent put on disengagement list and/or contact labour beauru 6. Advise from local NGO needed - if issue is around child not had schooling for many years and too far behind/bullying - may need to consider private tutor - particularly if a group of children found in factory 7. See above
Michelle Newbigin: 1. Agree difficult - not used it but have heard that dentist can help confirm age? Think if we are following the guidlines, if factory refuse to acknowledge child labour and we have concern we should inform the local labour department. 2. Liklihood is that this is trafficked labour and NGO involvement necessary - maybe need a seperate guidline on dealing with trafficked labour. 3. see above
Michelle Newbigin: Agree - normally a third party would do this. However in some circumstances local to our team we may use our own internal welfare officer to make these checks.
Michelle Newbigin: Would comment on point 1 - If the issue was voluntry child labour as opposed to trafficked and we had a local team in the area with local knowledge we may not need external local experts
Michelle Newbigin: This sounds fine - but may need NGO involvement if trafficked child labour and no access to parents
Michelle Newbigin: Agree with points 1-4 however last paragraph needs re-wording or deleting. There are many situations where young workers are able to work in a factory environment without harm - in the UK an employer would need to carry out a risk assessment. In some cases Child labour can also be combined with effective schooling - although this wouldn't be first choice. Our principle has always been to think about the individual situation and liaise with parents and consider local environment. There is also a distinction between bonded/trafficked child labour where remediation would certainly need NGO involvement; and voluntary/parental consent child labour where remediation can often be agreed with factory and parent with factory providing funding to suppliment wage and school fees. Therefore we can’t support a statement that ‘We believe that work in the industrial context, in factories, is always hazardous for young people and, in practical terms it is impossible to combine it with effective schooling. ‘
Annabelle Lefébure: 1. The worker should be considered as a child as long as no age proof can be provided and the case should be handled accordingly. 2. The factory has a responsibility towards all workers, whether they have been hired directly by the factory or via a labour provider/agent. This case should therefore be handled as a child labour case at the factory level. 3. The issue of child labour should be on the agenda for both government and unions. It is extremely important that governements acknowledge the child labour issue as a real existing problem and start a dialog with the industry. All policies, laws and regulations must be implemented and the governement has the responsibility to develop mechanismes and tools to ensure these laws are followed. Unions have an important part as well, as they can be a good facilitator between the child and the management, provide a stronger voice to the child. It's important they know how to react and what role to take if a situation of child labour ocurs in the factory.
Annabelle Lefébure: This is a very important face, but might be difficult to fully implement, especialy if the time perspective is quite long.
Blood Sweat and T-Shirts: coming face to face with child labour : » Blog Archive Impactt Ltd: [...] and T-shirts, the BBC3 reality TV show about the garment industry in India. We have been fairly critical of the show in previous weeks since it has seemed to focus on the Brit’s shock at their [...]
Annabelle Lefébure: Yes, a good remediation team is crucial.
Annabelle Lefébure: Remark: in many cases the retailer and the factory should implement the above actions with the help of a local / regional NGO, especially when meeting with the child and his/her family.
Annabelle Lefébure: Last paragraphe: "Therefore we believe that, in all cases of child labour in the industrial context, the child should be removed from work and a full remediation plan investigated." I suppose this applies to all children working in the industry if one of the above criterias (point 1-4) have not been met or are not respected? We agree with all the basic principles. The Varner Group does not believe in a complete ban on all work done by persons under the age of 18 in the factories, but, as stated in the principles, it is extremely important that the work done by children and young workers is very well regulated and does not harm the children in any way.
Annabelle Lefébure: This is a very interessting approach. It is important to join forcess and to collaborate on such important and difficult issues. We must be solution oriented and concrete. Understanding the problem is crucial in order to resolve it; it is therefore important to also involve NGOs that are near the grassroot and governemental institutions that actually have the power to implement and follow-up national laws and regulations. We need always to have the best of the child in mind.
laurent: 8. The key issue of any remediation program is the local support who will manage the program. As he will be the one giving the impulse and pushing people. 9. Back to previous answer, but exemple of previous sucess will have to be given to parents in order to convince them. 10. Ensure to the familly that during the program the child will earn the same amount at what is does today. 11. Back to point 8, the key person is local partner who should be strong and be an orgnanisation more than a single individual. 12. Such program must be build between the different buyers of the factory and not only one. So when, one buyers leave other remaining ones are still part of the process. It cannot be a single company approach but a multi buyers one. CSR is now mature enough to have global appoach on such program. Most buyers would agree to have a joined approach so that if one company pull out the program remains active and new buyer could even join the program.
laurent: 4. Factory has to be financially involved has they are responsible to the situation. Having the buyers involved, is possible only if factory is involved in the remediation program. 5. This should be considered has a breach of the Code of Conduct and corresponding policy should be involved, which means in some cases termination of the commercial relationship. 6. If he does not want to go back to school, review what he really wants and find alternative solutions such has apprenticeship... 7. It could means apprenticeship program that should be build specifically. For instance if he has to stay in the factory, working hours should be adapted accordingly, training program should be build (Learning of using different machines...) and regular assessment should be made. All the training should be made by a nominated tutor and support of evaluation tools.
laurent: 1. Never had situation when workers mentioned they are under age. Both workers and factory (sometimes only workers) are informed of age issue and try to hide issue for few months and make fake records till the legal age is reached. Recommendation is training of factories of implementing an effective age verification program and remind them of the risk and what are the legal requirements and also how they should handle young workers. Our child labor policy is generally not to accept child labour even with remediation plan. In most cases factories have difficulties to run efficient program. The idea is to prevent it for a start and only to do remediation if occured. 2. Requirement of age proof verification remains the same if employed directly or by labour providers. Factory is to have the age proof identification. 3. Unions & governments should be involved in the committee remediation group. But, extreme difficulty to get government involved as it means that at some stage factory broke the law. Factories are extremelly reluctant to get government involved.
laurent: Such cases have been limited so far... 1. Child was identified (14 yrs old) : and factory stop promptly the contract and he was asked to leave. Great difficulty to ensure what happened next. 2. Workers were just limit above the age but was working in the premises for few months already and was consider as Child when he started. We have focuss on our actions to improve the validation process of the age proof and recruiting policy of the factories.
laurent: Based on unfortunate previous experience, the step one before removing the child immediately is to review the situation with management (point 4), and define what the process of a remediation plan should be. Experience shows that management remove quickly the young worker and tracking can be difficult once he has left the company.
laurent: Dear Magali, It's mentioned in many document or even laws (Bangladesh), that light work may be allowed. I was wondering if official or less subjective definition could replace "light work".
Brian Collins & Simon Herbert: Over the last 2 years we have found more and more child labour, there are two reasons for this: • There is more to find, particularly in China • We are getting better at finding them, audit are now unannounced We have found ten times more child labour in 2006 that in 2005, lots in China and we even found one case in Scotland! As a result we have championed a change to Hallmark’s global policy on Child Labour (Jan. 2007). Where previously we walked away from factories where children were found, we now have the option of remediation. We do not have much experience in this area but our guiding principles are that whatever is agreed / done should be firstly, in the best interest of the child and secondly in the best interest of the child’s family. We welcome your efforts in the potentially difficult area and intend to use the final outcome as our guidance on the subject in both the work undertaken with the Hallmark supplier base and in the work we do with the CIES, Global Social Compliance Programme, Expert Working Group. Further to my comments: I would like to set up a meeting with Impactt in the near future to discuss the details of you doing some due diligence work for Hallmark, details as follows: • Develop an formal agreement between Hallmark and Impactt • Plan and undertake a small number of site audits, these would replace routine / annual audits by our normal 3rd. party suppliers. • Work on checks and monitoring of previously identifies Child labour issues Please reply to me at bcolli2@hallmark-uk.com
Brian Collins & Simon Herbert: No more comments at this time
Brian Collins & Simon Herbert: Introduction & Ref. 1, 2 & 3: We feel that a child in a remediation plan is still an employee and that the company has responsibilities to safeguard the wellbeing of its employees. We believe that the factory should take ownership of the remediation plan, that the company HR function (or similar function) should carry out the require checks, monitoring and reviews. We also believe that there is a place for a 3rd. party in checking / auditing that the factory is carrying out those responsibilities in an effective and timely manner. This could be made part of a routine ethic auditing. Make or Break Moments We believe you change the title of this section, we can see only one Make (Union, Government and NGO involvement) point, the rest are Break points (or Major Risks) May be it should take the form of a more comprehensive support / guidance section.
Brian Collins & Simon Herbert: Introduction & Ref. 1, 2 & 3: We feel that a child in a remediation plan is still an employee and that the company has responsibilities to safeguard the wellbeing of its employees. We believe that the factory should take ownership of the remediation plan, that the company HR function (or similar function) should carry out the require checks, monitoring and reviews. We also believe that there is a place for a 3rd. party in checking / auditing that the factory is carrying out those responsibilities in an effective and timely manner. This could be made part of a routine ethic auditing. Make or Break Moments We believe you change the title of this section, we can see only one Make (Union, Government and NGO involvement) point, the rest are Break points (or Major Risks) May be it should take the form of a more comprehensive support / guidance section.
Brian Collins & Simon Herbert: Introduction & Ref. 1, 2 & 3: We feel that a child in a remediation plan is still an employee and that the company has responsibilities to safeguard the wellbeing of its employees. We believe that the factory should take ownership of the remediation plan, that the company HR function (or similar function) should carry out the require checks, monitoring and reviews. We also believe that there is a place for a 3rd. party in checking / auditing that the factory is carrying out those responsibilities in an effective and timely manner. This could be made part of a routine ethic auditing.
David Kwok: 8,9,10. It is a matter of communication and analize the realitity to parents/guardian. 11, 12. It need the involvement of all clients in the factory. So that if one client left, there is still have other to continuous the monitoring.
David Kwok: 4. It should be fully discussed and agreed at the very beginning and the contract shall inculding this relevant terms. 5. Same as four. 6. Through communication and guidiance. 7. Send to somewhere available.
David Kwok: 1. Factory cannot avoid its responsibility to all workers who works in the factory. 2. Factory need to established a child labor prevention mechanism even though workforce provided by agents. 3. Union and government should be the monitoring role.
Brian Collins & Simon Herbert: Introduction & Ref. 1, 2 & 3 No comment Ref. 4 We would like some guidance on what is “long-term”, 3 months, 6 months or more than 1 year? Ref. 5 Again, we feel that making the factory pay for education & travel costs plus a full min. wage for the full term of the remediation plan (possibly several years) appears to be excessive. We like a more flexible approach with the payment being an agreed detail of the remediation plan. Ref. 6, 7 and 8 No comment
David Kwok: Done by third party and have report to all parties involves.
David Kwok: It is too idealistic and almost not workable. I suggest factory, parent,agent and client need take a responsibility to paid Child labor to study in school until they are not the Child labor any more. During this period, factory also need to provide food and accommodation to child labor. Client need to monitor the issue accordingly and also they need to bare the monitor cost.
David Kwok: "Contacting local labour authorities to validate identification" This should be very carefull, because factroy will be fined seriously on this issues by local labour authorities once it is exposed. Secondary, beside fine, according to China law, factory need to send back Child labour to their parents or guidiance within an time period. As a result, we may not really help the Childern. Children may be work for the other factory again later on.
Brian Collins & Simon Herbert: Note: We are assuming the actions are completed in the order listed. (i.e. 1 and then 2, and then 3) Ref. 1 We do not believe it is best interest of the child (as yet unproven) for him to be removed from work immediately. Ref. 2 This appears in the wrong place, we think it is relevant once the child is proven to be a child. Ref. 3 Our reservations around this clause are first: assuming gilt until proven innocent, and secondly the time-scale of actions. It may take some time to prove the child’s age particularly if contact with external authorities or medical checks are involved. What is this 16 and half year old doing while you are taking this action? Ref. 4 Ref. “Top” (as in CEO) should this be “senior” (Site management / HR). Ref. 5 No Comment Ref. 6 We agree with paying the child during the exploratory stage, but we feel that any payment after that (“Throughout the whole remediation programme”) should be more flexible i.e. an agreed detail of the remediation plan. Making the factory pay (full min. wage *) a child found working in the factory during his school holidays for the next six months while he is back at school appears to be excessive. (* i.e. there may not be an official min. wage for a child of 15 year old, only 16 upwards). Ref. 7 No comment Ref. 8 Re. Payment see 6 Ref. 9 No comment Ref. 10 We would like to stiffen this up from “advice” to making it a mandatory requirement for an effective Management System to ensure the recruitment process includes age verification and children are not employed.
David Kwok: Agreed
David Kwok: Child labor issues is exisiting in all developing countries. However, there has no proper way or procedure to handle child labor properly when he/she was found in the factory. I think it is good to work together to work out a workable general guideline to follows.
Ashling Seely: The ITGLWF believes that the development of child remediation guidelines should be done either through the ETI working with the ILO or by a coalition of MSIs again working with the ILO. This is not a new area of work- Stop Child Labour launched an 'Action Plan for Companies to Combat Child Labour' on 20th February this year. We think one has to be careful that there are not as many child remediation guidelines as there are codes of conduct. Finally, where trade unions exist it is very unusual to find child labour in the workplace- we therefore feel that there should be reference to the right to freedom of association in the text.
Ashling Seely: Point 9 - Parents may have to be reminded of the law and persuaded. Point 10 - There is not much evidence of this in any country. In any case an offer of re-employment when the child reaches the legal working age would counter this concern.
Ashling Seely: Point 6 - Children often do not want to go to school but they have to be encouraged. Point 7 - Our experience has been that there is always a school children can attend.
Ashling Seely: Point 1 - Where there is no proof that the person is old enough to work and they look young they should be removed from the workplace until their age is verified. Point 2 - If the factory used the child's work then they are responsible. Point 3 - There should be efforts to include both unions and governments, particularly education and social ministers.
Ashling Seely: The child should be offered employment at the factory when he/she reaches the legal working age.
Ashling Seely: This section looks a bit bureaucratic and the ITGLWF is concerned that it may be difficult to put in place in a factory environment where little infrastructure exists. Point 8 - It may be a bit eurocentric to think that parents will be supportative of the remediation process.
Ashling Seely: Point 1 - It is necessary to include where the child will be moved to. This should be somewhere safe- factory dorms are not acceptable. In India children are generally taken to centres specifically caring for children who have worked. Point 6 - Care needs to be taken to ensure parents do not send children to work just so they receive a stipend. Unemployed adults of the child's family could be offered work at the factory (although this would not negate the need to pay for education). If payments are given they should be conditional on the chil attending school on a regular basis, e.g. 75-80% attendance rate. Point 10 - We feel this is a bit weak. There needs to be insistance that recruitment procedures are put in place that require verifiable information on the age of all employed.
Ashling Seely: Most code of conducts do not allow for 12 or 13 year olds to work. Most codes say that the factory must abide by the terms of the code or national legislation, whichever is strongest. The ITGLWF thinks that the ages mentioned should be 15, or 18 for hazardous work. We think a detailed paragraph on what constitues hazardous work should be included in the text to make clear that, for example, ironing, working at high temperatures, using sharp instruments and work demanding extreme eye precision for long durations would all be considered hazardous.
Brian Collins & Simon Herbert: Ref 4. We do not believe it is impossible to combine work and schooling; any remediation plan should have that option if it is in the best interest of the child. Where a child of 15 years and 9 months is found in the site, it would appear to be a little inflexible to totally remove the child from work, send him back to school (he may not want to go back to school) until the day he is 16 and then bring him back in to the site. This may cause more hardship to the child than a remediation plan which includes some work and some schooling.
Brian Collins: Ref. 1 "country of manufacture." needs to be defined, i.e. maufactured in China, packed and despatched in Hong Kong. This is SITE related, whatever the process (or part of the process) being undertaken, should it be the laws & regs. of the country where the Site is located?
Brian Collins: No Comment
Nicole Bassett: I had a chance to read through the guidelines when they were first sent out. I have not had first hand experience of a child labour issue get to the stages that you have outlined. But I wanted to mention that I thought that the steps and level of due dilligence looked very thurough and steps that I could easily adopt when/if a situation like this were to arise. I think it was essential to outline the responsibilities of each of the parties as there are different leverage points. Thank you for bringing in outside stakeholder feedback. Nicole Bassett Patagonia Inc.
Nicole Bassett: this looks good
Effie Marinos: Have worked with one company who followed most of the guidelines above only to be asked by the child (over 15 but under 16 in China) to leave her alone - found the constant vists etc.. too intrusive! Also, the majority of cases we are finding at present relate to 15 year olds who have finished full time education but are not yet allowed to work - this is a real problem for the brands and for the children! Should this really eb classed as child labour? The real issue is where we find young girls (12-13 year old) provided to factories in E Turkey through agents - not on their books, not paid directly so totally uncontrolled - and the challenge of trying to monitor these situaitons is increasing.
Effie Marinos: Agree this is the hardest stage - and the area open to greatest abuse both by the factory etc. who can lose interst in teh longer term and tehchild/family who in some cases have been known to take undue advantage of the assistnace on offer! A form of legally binding contract for teh span of the programme should be put in place with mony held is escrow for the duration.
Effie Marinos: 4 and 5 - solutions will vary depending on relationship 6 and 7 depend largely on the age of the child quite apart from the financial circumstances - consideration should be given to appropriate workplace education - with light work and schooling taking place during working hours as part of a long-term development plan.
Effie Marinos: Involvement will vary from country to country. I believe there is a far greater role for NGOs than more formally structured organisations. Greater supervision of labour providers/agents is needed - licensing them to ensure a method to eb able to report issues if they refuse to take action would be astart.
Effie Marinos: What will be the advice where the child has finished full-time education but is not yet at legal working age?
Effie Marinos: I foresee 2 key issues that need to eb addressed here: 1. Finding a safe place for the child - depending on country the resources available vary significantly and in many areas there are no in-site dormitories either - hopefully this project will lead ot the formation and publication of information on such resources. 2. Gaining the consent of the child - depending on age thier views will vary significantly and I am aware f cases where children (below legal working age, but over 15)have been quite resnetful of this interference.
Hayley Gauntlett: No comments
Hayley Gauntlett: 8. As point 3 9. As point 7 - can't force people to do things against their will. 10. As point 7 & 9 11. Must ensure contractual responsibilities are defined and that ongoing committment is tied in. 12. Contractual agreement must be between factory and child. Purchaser must be responsibilt to monitor ongoing.
Hayley Gauntlett: 4. As point 3 5. As point 3 6. Very difficult to comment as more info would be needed on the reasons behind this. Feel it would be wrong to force the child to go to school but every effort should be made to persuade the child to go to school. 7. Very difficult to answer - would have to be addressed on a case by case basis. It may be appropriate to send the child away for schooling if the child and parents consent.
Hayley Gauntlett: 1. The only thing that can happen in this instance is that it must be assumed that they are a child unless proved otherwise. 2. Ultimately it is the factory's responsibility (as is resp for H&S) to check for the legality/age of the employees - both direct and indirect. Pressure must be applied by the customer to ensure that the factory accepts responsibility for the employees. 3. The union would have to be fully independant and not a puppet union controlled by the factory - so investigations would have to take place to ensure this was the case. They might even be used as the "friend" for the child. It would be best to involve them at the earliest stages once the child labourer has been identified.
Hayley Gauntlett: No comments
Hayley Gauntlett: What garuantee is there that the parents will not take the money from the factory and then send the child out to work?
Hayley Gauntlett: Point 5 - what if the child is living with parents and they pay the rent - is the factory to pay for the accommodation of the family? Point 10 - that this is advice for the factory. Also could add that the factory be made aware that they must not hire any other child workers.
Hayley Gauntlett: The last page statement is a bit confusing - are you saying that nobody under the age of 18 should work in a factory? In point 2 you say that "no persons under the age of 18 years will engage in any dangerous/hazardous work" then the last statement says you believe that working in factories is hazardous - ergo no one under 18 years can work in a factory. I don't believe that is the case and would certainly be happy with a 16 year old working in a factory but not doing hazardous work.
Nussara Meesane: Thailand may be far from use of child labour in industrial context, est in export garment sector. However, having experienced in conducting factory assessments in Thailand and Cambodia, I'm concerned that an increasing number of factories have a policy not to hire juvenile workers (those younger than 18 yrs old)in order to avoid complicated legal obligations, eg hazardous work. On one hand, this is probably a kind of discrimination (if the local law allows for juvenile workers employment). Or factories may hire them but close one eye when they use fake age documents. I wonder whether we can develop simple guideline/tools that encourage factories to hire young workers and use simple management systems to monitor them so as to meet with the local laws' conditions.
Benny Chan: Nil
Benny Chan: It is necessary to brainstorm about how far the remediation program can be effective and successful. Apart from resources and commitment, local cultures and social aspects should be considered to build up the program as well. Qualification of participants is a critical factor to determine its successfulness.
Benny Chan: Case 9 & 10: In fact, their earning capacity will be lower if they do not attend school. Remediation team should give advice and explanation to their parents about the benefits from schooling and negatives from not schooling. Case 11. Factory and purchaser should provide ongoing support and monitoring once the team broken down. Case 12. Purchaser still has responsibilities to ensure the implementation of the remediation program, it is still required to work closely with factory on the program. Committment from both parties can be binded by terms of purchase and CoC requirements.
Benny Chan: Case 4: Purchasers (buyers) should state all business terms (including CoC requirement and remediation programme for child labor) in contracts and roles, cost and responsibilities of all parties should be clearly indicated and explained before starting business. Violations against the terms above may lead to legal actions. Case 5: Education should be given especially to agent and factory, those should be responsible for the use of child labor. They should be highlighted about the impacts and consequences from use of child labor. If it really happens, remediation programme is important to help the affected person (child labor), it is also positive for all parties. However, the most important thing is how to avoid the use of child labor. Case 6: It happens especially for child labor from poor and remote areas since they need job to feed their families. Even they are found as child labor in a factory, they prefer to work in another factories those do not "mind" child labor. If so, only attraction to help them back to school is financial subsidy for them during school/training. However, the program should consider the wills of child labor as long as legal requirement can be enforced. Case 8: I need to know the details of "appropriate schooling available" before making recommendation.
Benny Chan: Case 1: Legal age document(s), e.g. ID card/birth cert./medical record should be reviewed as one of the evidences. If inconsistencies found, factory should provide more info./document to fill the gaps. However, info. from workers must be verified again to avoid misunderstanding or incorrect info. Case 2: Factory should have ultimate responsibilities to regulate the workers working in its factory. It has obligation to verify their ages before starting working. Case 3: The roles of union on child labor issue seem not obvious. However, government (local labor office) should be involved to verify the age of suspected child labor and carry out investigate the employment of child labor.
Melanie Frame: The structure of the report is a competent basis to assess and effcetively manage a child labour subject. There should be stages in the remediation process that delve deeper into the issues and offer areas on where ngos can and should become involved.
Benny Chan: Which party will pay the cost of "ongoing support and monitoring"? Who will be the potential third party, e.g. local experts, NGO?
Benny Chan: Poverty should be the main reason for child labor. "Negotiating commitment from the supplier/site to re-hire the child when he or she reaches legal working age." seems not necessary. May their parents refuse their children to join remediation programme? If so, how to deal with this issue afterward? Factory may be reluctant and uncommitted to support the programme especailly in financial aspect.
Benny Chan: Cooperation from local labor authority is reserved. Child labor may suddenly "disappear" in one or two days when he/she is found, not easy to implement the work/program afterward. ID card/age document can be fake even it is issued by local authority. Presence and involvement of their parents may be not practical, in some cases, they sold their children to agent and they don't really care them.
Benny Chan: "No person will be employed or engaged in work if they are younger than 15 (or 14 in some developing countries)." may be misleading as first sentence. In some countries (e.g China), the age of child labor is below 16. I am agreed that working in factories and schooling for children or young workers are very difficult to combine together due to lack of effective monitoring or controlling system. It may be the same case for workers handling chemicals or hazardous jobs, who will monitor the tasks assigned properly among all workers? In the factory, children or young workers cannot be easily identified unless some factories require them to wear uniform in special/different colors.
Benny Chan: In the introduction section, the impacts/consequences should be highlighted briefly in order to catch attention from readers at higher level and treat the issue in a more serious manner.
Fachon Perry: 8. More education as to why this remediation will be beneficial long term. 9-10: This is my biggest concern and this will take a lot of education for the parents. However, until the Government improves the schools, I do not have a recommmendation. Basically, the parents to not see any alternative for making money other than their child working at a factory. Long term goals are not something they can focus on when the family is hungry and needs money right away. 11. Review the reasons for the commitment breakdown and reevaluate. 12. This is tough because this is a realistic result that does happen. I have no recommendation.
Fachon Perry: 4. Educate as to what the long term affects of this decision may be. Work with the amount of funding provided. 5. I would want to find out the exact reasons why. Too time consuming? Costs are too high? Then tackle the root cause of that reason as typically it is founded on misunderstanding or not being provided options. 6. Unless Government starts improving schools and putting money towards good teachers and books...I am unsure about a recommendation. A child needs to see there is a better opportunity for making money by finishing school and having an education than just working at a factory. 7. See #6. Government has to be involved in builing up the school systems and ensure there are good schools that are available to all kids.
Fachon Perry: 1. If the factory cannot provide age identification immediately, I would believe the worker. However, to ensure this is not a disgruntled worker who is not being truthful, a series of questions should be asked regarding their age; current events etc..to be certain they were the age they specified. 2. Especially with the new contract labor laws this is tricky. A factory could legally be using a child worker from a labor agency and not have any responsibility regarding the child. All responsibility would fall to the labor agency to have proper contracts, identification etc... 3. Unions should play a bigger role, especially with new contract labor laws allowing this to occur. Government must enforce minimum age and promote schooling.
Fachon Perry: Good steps for a remediation program. Will there be counseling for the parent about why it is better for a child to finish schooling instead of working?
Fachon Perry: I agree with these immediate action points. My question: What happens when you discover the parent is who instructed the child to obtain the job? So the parent is aware the child is underage, but the family needs to money. How do you handle any punishment that child may receive from the family for "losing" the job?
Kelsey: I lasted less than five minutes. Darn touch pad! Not that I earned it, but isn't a wage of $6/day a bit on the high side?
david halford: an excellent initiative - look forward to working together on this, and to hearing more about the foundation. will be really good to have practical guidance. Needs to include example costs of remediation? case studies? success stats? stats of CL in target countries? (include in intro) who's doing what currently (NGOs etc) what stance gov take in theory and in practice, what's in it for employer (are kids cheaper than adults?), what a good ethical policy should say about CL, PR strategy hope some of this helps? best wishes david
david halford: 8. continue anyway, keep them in the loop, provide info regarding what remediation means, find out why they're not committed 9.educate the parent (explain the benefit) - show examples - find out why - is scooling a legal obligation on the parents , as in uk? 10, provide examples to show otherwise - info pack for parents? 11. develop strategy that is not dependent on team? subsistence payments only made if parent / child keeps in touch? central agency to coordinate? incentivise children to complete programme? 12. programme to be independent of purchaser? (ngo coordinator), responsibility stays with purchaser regardlesss/ 12.
david halford: 4. proceed anyway, seek buy-in for future events, check contractural obligations, support charitable foundation, review programme (prioritise / slim down), will supply chain offer services instead of funding? what is preventing them - is it lack of money, or fear of pr, or lack of commercial link, or talking to wrong person? go public? contact other clients of factory? 5. as above 6. have alternative strategy - vocational training? why reluctant? history? is it better to 'lose' a child (lose track) or for child to remain at factory, but be monitored / assigned light duties? 7. seek alternative?
david halford: 1. can the management provide absolute proof of age? do their systems for verification seem robust? is there evidence from other aspects of the audit that the management are honest and transparent? err on caution, be prepared to admit mistake if so proven. 2. factory is responsible for all on their premises. what is agreement between fact and labour provider? include provider as a stakeholder. 3. get endorsement of unions / gov for general principles, understand to what extent their involvement helps / hinders
david halford: where does 3rd party monitor come from? is there a network of local ngos to call on, or are we reliant on consultants? recommended frequency of contact? what's situation if funds meant for child are misappropriated by family / guardian?
david halford: what if our policy is 'no workers under 16' and we're working somewhere that allows 14?
david halford: prioritise according to age?
david halford: what if factory doesn't allow further access?
david halford: guidelines are designed for...licensors? (eg hasbro)licensees? (eg BBCW)auditors?
Jamie Huskisson: A good interactive step towards practical education on the matter. Great find
Paul Mannings: I hpoe my specific comments have been of assistance and viewed as constructive from somebody who has no experience of this issue but simply read the draft guidelines and tried to put them into context with my own knowledge and background. I look forward to working with you on this in the future. Kind regards
Paul Mannings: 8. The child must come first and providing their welfarte is ensured then other parties can only be persuaded to buy in as much as necessary. Other incentives may be required as persuasuion, using the western clients as a lever to aid the situation. 9. As above. 10. THe parents can be shown how well their child can do with schooling which would significantly enhance their earnings potential - other children could be used to help this process and other parents who have been through the process. 11. Continual review and monitoring required with incentivised milestones. 12. THe factory may acquire other purchasers who could be persuaded to participate in the remediation process instead.
Paul Mannings: 4. In the current climate most western organisations would be very uncomfortable if their lack of assistance were exposed. THe actual costs involved are negligible in the sclae of hte business undertaking and much positive impact can be gained which should be emphasised to the organisations concerned. 5. Again, the western organistaion will have some clout in their relationship with the employer etc which should assist in the 'enlightenment' of the parties concerned. Equallly, the tangible benefits will increase production and quality which can be sold as part of the package. 6. The child may not know any different to that which they have been brought up - suggest trying out school for a period, and combining with work for a few hours a day to encourage the child of the benefots that schooling can bring. What we don't want is to extract the child from somewhere and place them on the streets as they don't go to school! 7. THe child must be placed somewhere safe until schooling is found within a set time period.
Paul Mannings: 1. If in doubt, act upon your instincts. In any event, agree with the employer to place the chld in a less hazardous posiotion until proof of ang can be determined. 2. The labour agent therefore has to get involved but in this situation, the child is probabaly at greater risk because the employer has not concern for the worker, therefore the child must be removed as a pririty and there should be little the employer could do about it. 3.Government must be made aware of the situation(s) in a way that they cannot dismiss the findings as speculative. Clearly many unions and governments turn a blind eye to incidents because of the way in which their economies are managed but unless action is taken the status quo will remain
Paul Mannings: This should include for reviews at the workplace to identify if the situation has changed or if another child is placed in the same position as those helped under the programme.
Paul Mannings: Again the remediation programme should take into considertaion the needs of the child as paramount, but cannot disreagrd the social, cultural and economic conditions around the child. THe family and the employer all need to be assessed to understand the circumstances. Why is child labour used? Are there alternatives the Employer could consider? What happens to other children working in the same place? Will the family simply send another of their children as a replaceemnt? Phase 2 must actively consider the points otherwise whilsty the individula child may hopefuly benefit from action taken, the underlying problem remains which is why the child is there in the first instance. The specific points of phase 2 must be clear and concise at all times. What happens if not all the points are achieved, does the renediation plan fall apart? What is the fall back position to provide some flexibility to suit individual circumstances?
Paul Mannings: I have concerns over the way this is presented. Whilst the approach is laudable and for all the right reasons in extracting the child at risk to a place of safety, there are some issues that must be considered first, which you have picked up under phase 2. The second paragraph of phase 2 "Ensuring the child's welfare must the the first priority .... and, A full understanding of the situation ...." should be at the forefront of phase 1 before any precipitant action is taken. The draft guidelines suggest taking action that could give rise to difficult consequences as a result. On whose authority is the child to be removed from the workplace? I suggest that any action must be undertaken by at least 2 people, one preferably female, to minimse a risk of claims made by the child about their welfare or the way in which they have been treated by those taking the action. What about the risk of accusation of abduction? Taking action must be appropriate in many circumstances but the guidelines as presented leave those taking such action wide open to future accusation, which could come from any quarter (parents, employer, the child themslelves) and therefore the guidelines must be written in a way to provide protection not only for the child but those acting on the child's behalf. Obviously if the child is in immerdiate imminent danger then action must be taken to place the child in a safer environment, but this need not be away from the place of work without first understanding the picture and the holistic needs of the child and their welfare. For example, if a child was working with unguarded machinery, then the machine must be stopped and the child taken away from that point. At this stage, rather than implementing the phase 1 guidelines as written which could cause significant distress and consterantion to the child, the team involved must first make a rapid assessment to understand the circumstances before implenetiong the full scale phase 1 approach. You may recall the scottish child abuse scandal where social services took immedaite action in removing children from their homes based on ill-founded guidelines. This caused significant damamge to the families involved as many of the children were in fact loved and well cared for but the guidelines in place at the time gave no provision for a holistic reflection of the circumstances with the subsequent errors of judgement made.
Paul Mannings: No comment other than from a quick overview, the ILO guidelines appear sufficiently loose to permit individuals to interpret them to suit their own circumstances whereas I think the Impactt guidlines should seek to lay down a clear undertsanding that doesn't give rise to loose interpretation.
Paul Mannings: Point 1 - THere is immediate conflict within the first 2 sentences. "No person will be employed .... if they are under 15. ... Light work may be allowed for 12 to 13 year olds..." This conflict leads to a lack of clarity and opens the way for abuse of any guidlines. Either a 12 year old can work or they cannot and the sentence needs to be clear on this. Point 2 - THis should be expanded to ensure that any operations are undertaken only with appropraite, well-maintained safety equipment appropraite to the work in hand. Last sentence - THe phrase "in factories" immediately excludes all other workplaces such as sweatshops, traders, quarries etc from the meaning of this particular clause and could equally be interpreted to apply across the entire document, thereby limiting its remit to just factory operations. Either take it out or change to read "all places of work" for example.
Paul Mannings: I am unclear what the proposal is looking to achieve from the introduction - is it a statement of existing legislation / common practice or a desire to implement a new framework to establish s global standard for incidences of child labour? Once you start to read the document thngs become clearer but the introduction would be better as an executive summary picking out the salient points of the document for easy understanding.
school delays: [...] Child Labourers from Sichuan are oversubscribed same vegetables in Dongguan [...]
pearl » Blog Archive » Child Labourers from Sichuan are sold like vegetables in Dongguan: [...] unknown wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptThere are up to 750 bonded child workers in the Pearl River Delta area. Workers as young as 9 years old are sold to factories. Young workers are threatened and beaten if they try to escape. Child labourers are working over 300 hours a … [...]
Jayn Harding: Very tiresome having to type name and e-mail address for each page/series of questions. But hope the revision goes well. JAYN
Jayn Harding: Would like to help but am working all hours at the moment. Will capacity building be applied here?
Jayn Harding: Commendable, definitely should be the aim - but how many companies actually do provide, or have the resources to provide, such long-term social work support?
Jayn Harding: What if it is the culture of the country for children to work in the family unit?
Jayn Harding: Looks reasonable
Jayn Harding: Should schooling be provided if none available, rather than the work not interrupt schooling? Should good access to healthcare be provided?
derek jackson: A welcome and overdue document in explaining what proper remediation is. There is still much work to be done as experience has shown that many problems are endemic, bespoke to the factory, locality and the child.
derek jackson: Yes we would
derek jackson: Agree
derek jackson: Easier said than done. Need a nework of contacts who can asssist and give practical advice - an emergency help line
derek jackson: Agree with most of the above. Howevere, we need to take account of the age of the child. For eg someone who is 15 and a half it might be better to manage with the working environment. The childs safty is of prime importance.
Derek Jackson: I agree
Derek Jackson: Guidelines a very useful tool
Nicola: We are doing what we can on CSR with very limited resources (people and money). While everything in the guidelines makes perfect sense, I am not sure how in practice we would actually go about implementing some of it. I am hoping that through being involved in the working group, we will feel more confident in tackling and resolving any child labour issues that we do come across.
Nicola: I am concerned that we have raised issues with suppliers in the past (not just on child labour) but then have to leave that day or the next day which makes it very difficult to follow up and check that things are being improved and acted upon. It could be several months before we are back in a factory to check on the issues by which point it can be too late. Labour providers are a big problem, our suppliers don't check ages of workers from labour providers and when we have approached the workers, they say that they don't have ID cards. From going through records we have found young workers, we've asked to see them and the factory has told us that they have left, so unless we actually see a worker, it's very difficult to even start to tackle this.
Nicola: I have no direct experience of this. Has it been found that most children stay on the educational programme or do some drift back into work or simply drift out of contact with any 3rd party/remediation team. I agree that this should be monitored in some way and probably best monitored by an independent body.
Nicola: Are there any guidelines for how long this process should take? What is happening to the child while all of the discussions are taking place? As previous sections, we don't have anyone based on the ground in China permanently who could deal with this and would probably need considerable support from Impactt or a similar organisation. If a large number of child workers were found, would it be practical to remove them all to a location away from the factory while the investigations are on-going or would they be better staying in the factory on light duties being carefully supervised?
Nicola: This all sounds great and makes perfect sense in theory. I am less sure about what we actually do in practice. Going back to my comments on the last section, if I'm in a Chinese factory at the end of the day and I find a young worker, how do I actually remove them without making things worse for them in the short-term? I'm also not sure how we would go about providing food and shelter, on a practical basis and also not wanting to scare the worker in question by suddenly putting them in a strange place with strange people. We have an English developer, English quality manager and 2 Chinese QCs based in China so nobody with any real experience at dealing with these issues. I think that we would have to get a 3rd party involved (Impactt) if we were going to resolve it satisfactorily. Of course if we raise the issue of an underage worker without removing them, the factory is fairly likely to sack them as soon as we leave. Despite encouraging our suppliers to be open, we know from reliable sources that most of them actually give young looking workers the day off (even office staff) on our audits. We have also seen a lot of young looking workers in our suppliers who are provided by sub-contractors, we are trying to get our suppliers to check the ages of subcontract workers but have had limited success so far on this.
Johann Zueblin: I strongly belief that the whole process it still complicated but as a guideline one can live with it. The handbook for the application must be much more adapted to local conditions and be developed by a local stakeholder group. In a first place we should work on the worst cases of child labour and there we must react quickly. We know very well in which countries, regions and productions child labour is a fact. Together with the supply chain, mainly with the retail business with the buying power one should “force” the production community to fellow training and information activities in a first place. I this remediation I strongly miss the information and training part at the beginning of the activities and this can be done before child labour is detected. We must become more proactive in such activities. Our experience in the south of India shows that a step by step approach with the manufacturer and the population / workers is more appropriate than an immediate change without a long lasting program in accordance with the real needs.
Nicola: We agree with the age guidelines and the type of work that can be carried out by workers under 18. While most people would be horrified by the idea of young workers in factories, what we have learned is that working in a factory is much better than alternative options such as prostitution. At the end of the last day of an audit in China, we found a 15 year old girl who had secured employment through using a fake ID card, we discussed with the supplier that the worker should be placed into education, they should continue to pay her wages until her education was complete etc but due to our schedule we had to leave at the end of that day and we're left with following up on email. If I'm honest we didn't really follow up on the issue as well as we should have done, not because we didn't want to but because we didn't really know what we should do.
Nicola: Over the last 2 years we have audited all of our first tier suppliers in conjuction with Impactt. While we haven't really had an issue with child labour, we are now widening our supply base into new countries and also sub-licensing our brand out to other companies to produce apparel and accessories, so the potential that there will be an issue somewhere in that chain is getting bigger all of the time and we're not sure that we would really know what to do if we found it.
Johann Zueblin: Include parallel means. In certain countries and societies one can find very well established systems to handle such issues. I propose to include that existing and equivalent systems can be taken into consideration
Johann Zueblin: Include parallel means. In certain countries and societies one can find very well established systems to handle such issues. I propose to include that existing and equivalent systems can be taken into consideration
Johann Zueblin: 70% of the child labour is found in the sector of agriculture / primary production. Industry / manufacturer use very often goods coming from agriculture (ex. Cotton, coffee, tee, etc.) This document should as well take care of this important part of the problem. The guidelines for primary production (very often a family business) must be developed accordingly. I propose to introduce a module primary production / small scale farming or family business. The ILO has only defined a few conventions regarding small scale ore family farming. Therefore it is very important to take this issue into consideration as well.
Johann Zueblin: In state of using "We hope that these draft guidelines will stimulate debate" one should use a clear aim. aim: stimulate debate and decide on "best practice" regarding ...
isaac yu: We are talking about reward a corrective factory. In postive thinking, should we publish a list of any factories who was caught for child labours but have taken remediation program to improve the situation to the International brands so that in case these brands are interested in using this factory, they can also participate in the monitoring group to assure the factory do not occur the problem again. It could be a risky thought, I know.
isaac yu: The procedures is fine. My concern is if a new factory was uncovered child labourer issue from a purchaser or agent. However, at that moment there is no business relationship at all between the purchaser/agent and the factory. Or the incdient is uncovered by a brand with small business. Where is the negotiation power the company can talk to the factory for the remediation program? Should the factory agree to involve the government? What's the situation if many child labourers are reported on site? It will involve huge amount of remediation costs. If the factory disagree, should we just drop the factory? What's the solution to the affected workers? Or should we pass the case to the local government to deal with the factory? These can be discussed.
isaac yu: This phase I action must be taken quick, in particular the day of detecting child labour existence. In normal circumstance, the inspector might only 1 person alone to do the audit or visit. It is very lack of manpower to control the situation in factory at time child labours were uncovered. Factory might make use of the confused situation to let as many hiring child labourers go as possible. To identify the number of exact child labours exisited is difficult. To monitor the problem factory to keep the uncovered child labours in the factory for remediation program is also difficult. How we can coordinate an emergence back up team to support above assistance? This shall be included in the discussion.
Isaac Yu: SAI has more specific terms on child remediation: Company shall remediate child labour by providing adequate support to remain in school until no longer a child. WRC has good term to ask their licensees must take reasonable steps to minimize negative impacts in child labourers released from employment as a result of enforcement of the code. I would say the factory shall show or prove they have taken reasonable steps to minimize any recruitment of child labour.
Isaac Yu: Should we include the worker stakeholder? Many cases showed that a child labor might bring in by the child's relatives or friends from hometown who was actually working in the factory. They were also the key persons to influence the child worker continue to saty with them, going home, or going for education after a case was reported. Should we develop guidelines or posted codes to draw their awareness, educate them, and state the labor rights & responsibilities to prevent bringing any underage people in the factory?
Keri Davies: We'll have to see what we can do. (I'm an Archers scriptwriter)
Maritha Lorentzon: The guide lines are well worked through, however there are many obstacle in terms of child labour, depending on which country. Maybe an additional part describing situations in different countries.
Maritha Lorentzon: What if bonded labour is applicable. The parents have through agent get a reasonable amount which the child is paying back with work. Should authorities be contacted since it involves a serious crime, and the person involved in the trafficking should be stoped.
Maritha Lorentzon: There is always border line cases. It may be that the child is turning to legal age within a month for example. It may then be difficult to obtain guarantees from management that they will finance and support a remidiation plan that stretch over 2 years, meaning that it will be a financial strain on the family and most truly the child will never fulfill education program. How to deal with this? It would also be neccessary to address the question how the financial support should be paid out. Monthly, yearly, in one lot? Parents may live in a remote village and it would be difficult to make regular payment.
Maritha Lorentzon: In many countries children have migrated or been sent by their family to earn money. The procedure of getting parents agreement can take very long time, and during this time the child is under hard pressure. It would be important to make it clear to the management that if the child will "disappear", this will be taken in to concideration from buyers side how that will effect future business. Daily contact with the child is neccessary to ensure they are ok, until final arrangement is organised.
Maritha Lorentzon: It can not strong enough be pointed out that the child needs first attention, and needs to be ensured that nothing bad is going to happen to them. In situation where a child is found it is most likely that they will be harrassed by management by the time you leave the factory. They feel like they is the one that have created this unfortunate situation for the factory, and very often they are very frighten.
Maritha Lorentzon: This part is all clear. It is also very good that you specify what is considered as hazardous work. It may also need a clarification what would be considered as light work.
Juliet Edington: A great start at a sensible practical and not prohibitivly complicated set of guidelines. More needed to apportion the roles and responsibilities of the different players so that everyone doesn't just think its someone else's role. There are also a number of other make or break situations that could usefully be explored with those already on the list. Happy to contribute if I can usefully do so.
Juliet Edington: There can be other make or break moments like for example where the appropriate people/institutions for the remediation team do not exist locally or when for example in a country like Vietnam the child would have to return to their 'home town/village' which may be thousands of miles from the original workplace and therefore hard to manage the communication/cooperation between the factory management, purchaser, remediation team etc.
Juliet Edington: May be useful here to explicitly include: a) the need for the on-going monitoring to check that the appropriate stipend continues to be paid on an on-going basis and b) the need to check that the child is either re-hired or has the option to be re-hired on reaching the appropriate age.
Juliet Edington: This is a great first step in trying to articulate the needs at the different stages. However this stage is of course immensely complicated not least because the establishment of an appropriate remediation team is in itself in most cases very difficult particularly where the appropriate local experts/institutions do not exist. I think it would again be helpful to differentiate and articulate the different roles/responsibilities a bit here. For example the remeidation team may be great at identifying a training facility but may have some problems securing committment from the supplier to rehire the child later. The potential role of the buyer in requiring feedback, providing technical/financial etc support with all this cannot be underplayed. Without someone being responsible for being 'on the case' to follow up progress every step of the way it is easy (and for many convenient) for these things to fade away quietly. There are more pointers that could be added into the detail to help ensure this list is more than a wish list.
Juliet Edington: Under point 1) it would be useful to have something about the need to first explain to the child what is going to happen and why and that it is not their fault. Sudden and unexplained removal from the workplace in an often rough manner can be terrifying for a child who fear reprissals etc.... For each point it would be useful over time to identify and state who is responsible for each step (my be multiple people/groups). Without clarity on roles it is easy for noone to take responsibility for a particular step and for things to fall through the net. For example whose responsibility (including financial) will it be to 'provide free food and accommodation' until the remediation plan is operational? And clearly certain parties may not be able/appropriate to take on the role of understanding the needs of the child etc...
Mark McGuinness: Superb title!
YPRK: need law inforceman and intensive controlling from goverment
YPRK: let the children work in young age especially in factory will make their future worse, and they will keep be a labour when they are adult.
Pondokan/ YPRK: We are interested to join with this discussion because we are a NGO that have been work in issued of child labour in factory and child in fishery, and we can give more information about child labour.
Hazel: we have had an instance of a child on remediation being paid until they are 16 but have got a job elsewhere at a competitor organisation... the factory manager is furious as he thinkgs they are being paid twice!
Hazel: A useful appendix would be a short section on preventative action - what checks should a factory be making to try to prevent this happening in the first place?
kate: If the other points I made in earlier questions were dealt with I think it would prevent some of these issues..... Perhaps ETI members could create country funds which members contribute to which are a fund available to deal with these sorts of issues. Even if a buyer left a factory the fund/programme continues to support the monitoring and perhaps even factory management systems improvement learning.
kate: we need to look at cost effective methods. Who do you recommend as 3rd parties? Is there a network of local NGOs Impactt can recommend and facilitate partnership with? Do you have some case studies on this? How to make cost effective when only 1-2 children?
Kate: Given that these issues are usually found on audits, this partly implies that audits should always have a team member who is local, and representative of the area, i.e., we shouldn't just be flying people up from HK-Guangdong all the time. At a bare minimum, audit firms should retain local networks. 2. Fully agreed. 3. 4. Yes, and it gets tricky if the parents work in the factory, so even if the child has education outside, they would prefer to return the factory to live to be with family. How is working prevented when a young and able person returns to the factory regularly. We all need to discuss this issue in much more depth. Should unannounced audits be required? But costly. How to monitor? 5. As stated earlier, how to get past the fact that this creates an incentive for factories to hide child labour? 6.7. Yes. Good. 8. Very good point.
Kate: Points 2,3,4,7,8,9,10 totally agreed. Point 1: How? Where to? This relies on points 5,6,8 working out successfully. In the shortterm, it also sounds difficult. So a healthy able young person sits in a dorm room all day and gets fed for free while their roommates slave away? Surely this must generate some real resentment, tension and even frustration from the child that they are embarrassed to be a cost on everyone else? Point 5: Most brands don't have some emergency budget set aside for this. Perhaps through the ETI Impactt could lobby that brands Do set aside an emergency budget for this every year. Perhaps it could even be a legislated requirement. Point 6: I still find it hard to understand how this can really occur successfully in reality. This creates a strong incentive for sites to hide child labour if they pay, but as above, brands don't keep budgets for this. Point 7 and 8: These are perhaps the most important and the make or break. Perhaps we should be focussing our work on what can make this work. Point 10: This seems to be working, and perhaps encouraging the practise of some sites also paying for longterm workers childrens education can support prevention. Buyers could perhaps also be looking to partner on paying supplier factory workers childrens education. We could use consultant/NGO support on tracking the legitimacy of this, and developing budgets.
Kate: Generally good although I personally did some holiday work babysitting, kiwi fruit picking, cleaning etc at age 11ish (under 12). So that restriction, if managed for safety and not interfering with schooling needs clarification. Is it the ILO convention or are you proposing it as industry standard? I did many after school and weekend paid jobs at age 13-16, and worked 60+ hour weeks in summers at age 17. So I agree the focus for udner 18 needs to be on hazard free, and all other legal compliance. Clarification on 'local requirements' for 'programme design, training support' is needed for vocational programmes etc.
Kate: Good statement but not clear if we are free to invite other partners we work with on this issue to comment also? You state 'all stakeholders' but are not specific about whether we can forward your invite to people who's opinions I highly value such as Dr Liu ICO, Zhou weidong BSR, SGS consultants, other brand auditors, Verite team etc. Thanks for clarification. Without their input I won't feel it is a comprehensive and fully assessed industry opinion. Your leadership efforts are still well noted.
Brian Collins: Point 1. The meaning of the phrase "country of manufacture" could be mis interpreted, consider a change to "country where the work or service is carried out". Point 2. In what context is the word "development" used, Physical, psychological or career ? Point 3. There are some work experience programmes for children or young persons that do not meet the local min. age requirements. Point 4. I do not believe it is impossible to combine some work with effective schooling. I do not like the exclution of all work from the remediation plan, surely we should keep this option open.
Brian Collins: OK, No Comments
george padelopoulos: No comment - it is a sensible approach
George Padelopoulos: No mention is made of enaging with relevant national child NGO's - this may be appropriate/possible in certain countries and/or situations.
George Padelopoulos: seems fine - however I have reservations about sharing data on a non secure web site
chris walker: Thanks for the invitation to participate, I look forward to seeing the finalised document. Best wishes, Chris.
chris walker: Agree that the above are "make or break moments" along with others, such as... supply chain initially funding remediation, but stopping as soon as the customers / NGO's etc. focus or pressure ceases...
chris walker: I think that checking with the school that the child is attending regularly is a good thing to do, but not sure that all the above actions are appropriate, as they may be interpreted as being over the top & interfering rather than concern.
chris walker: Agree broadly, the above is ideal, however... Points 5 & 6, although agree this is ideal, I have a concern that putting costs back onto the employer may increase the pressure on him to retrieve his margin by other possibly unethical practices? eg labour rate, etc.
Chris Walker: Agree these are the right things to do, although as described it's an "ideal" scenario, and not always so easy to implement.
Chris Walker: Agree that children under 12, 13, 14, or 15 as appropriate to definition, shouldn't be employed in industrial context, and in such cases the child should be removed from work and a full remediation plan instigated.
Chris Walker: OK!
LOUISA STURMEY: GOOD INTRO - OPPORTUNITY TO WORK TOGETHER ON CHILD LABOUR REMEDIATION
Emmanuel Donkor: Hi, Let me first of all commend Impactt Limited for the great work it is doing in helping ensure fair labour standards in factories across the world. I think the worst thing any person can do to a young child is deprive him or her of his 'youthness' if that is a right word to use. We all have been given opportunities to aspire to a greater life and working in most cases, deplorable environments at a very young age is certainly not a right start for a child. This is why I am against child labour in any form or shape. I think we all have a part to play in halting this phenomenon. Those of us who live in the affluent developed world where most of the products of child labour is consumed ought to take a stance on child labour. We all have to applaud the efforts of companies like impactt limited and the ethical trade initiative (ETI)in helping these vulnerable children have a descent start to live; that just as our children, they can also aspire to a higher and dignified life in the future.
Antonio: Excellent evening guys - really enjoyed it. Roll on the next 10 years!
Antonio Gould: I was also hugely impressed by the film. I thought the use of non-actors was a very brave step and really gave it a naturalistic edge which I thought made it much more powerful. I've spoken to a few people who like myself donated to the family funds as soon as the film was finished!

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